Mytilenian debate. Thucydides: The Mytilenean Debate (427 B.C.) 2019-01-08

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The Mytilenian Debate

mytilenian debate

The next day their feeling changed and the guilt of their rash decision sparked the debate of whether to retract their conviction. In addition, Mytilene was different from most allies because it was ruled by an. In his celebrated funeral oration, Pericles underscored the ideals that all Athenians should strive, sacrifice, and die for. Given the situation with Mytilene, he argues, there are no good choices, only lesser bad choices. How do we parse all this as anti-rhetorical rthetoric? His usage of poignancy was superb throughout his address and a peculiar portion of his address that was loaded with emotional entreaty caught my eyes. In such contests the state gives the rewards to others, and takes the dangers for herself.

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The Mytilenian Debate, 427 BC, also spelled Mytilenean or Mytilenaean Stock Photo: 161830558

mytilenian debate

Showing mercy, he insists, is the only way to avoid future rebellions against Athens. By cleverly associating their sympathy for the Mytileans with vulnerability he appealed to the council's sentiments by questioning their handle and making them ponder upon the repercussions of the actions. A fast sailed the 186 nautical miles 344 km in less than a day and brought the decision to cancel the general massacre, but a thousand citizens were executed for taking part in the rebellion. Though I prove them ever so guilty, I shall not, therefore, advise their death, unless it be expedient; nor though they should have claims to indulgence, shall I recommend it, unless it be dearly for the good of the country. The latter are always wanting to appear wiser than the laws, and to overrule every proposition brought forward, thinking that they cannot show their wit in more important matters, and by such behaviour too often ruin their country; while those who mistrust their own cleverness are content to be less learned than the laws, and less able to pick holes in the speech of a good speaker; and being fair judges rather than rival athletes, generally conduct affairs successfully.


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Thucydides 2

mytilenian debate

The city is no gainer by such a system, since fear deprives it of its advisers; although in truth, if our speakers are to make such assertions, it would be better for the country if they could not speak at all, as we should then make fewer blunders. These Post-Periclean individuals will now be discussed. By cleverly exploiting Cleon's severe persistence that interest precedes justice, Diodotus gets away with criticizing Cleon's severe consequence without questioning its impartiality. However, their guilty conscience soon occur and the predicament to kill or not to kill got over. We meanwhile shall have to risk our money and our lives against one state after another; and if successful, shall receive a ruined town from which we can no longer draw the revenue upon which our strength depends; while if unsuccessful, we shall have an enemy the more upon our hands, and shall spend the time that might be employed in combating our existing foes in warring with our own allies Thucydides, The History of the Peloponnesian War, Book 3, Chapter 9 In my understanding, Cleon is arguing to kill all the men, even those who didn't instigate the rebellion. But if you butcher the people of Mitylene, who had nothing to do with the revolt, and who, as soon as they got arms, of their own motion surrendered the town, first you will commit the crime of killing your benefactors; and next you will play directly into the hands of the higher classes, who when they induce their cities to rise, will immediately have the people on their side, through your having announced in advance the same punishment for those who are guilty and for those who are not.

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Mytilenian Debate

mytilenian debate

For instance, unfolding the plot one step at a time in a chronological timeline could appeal to these viewers who like that any word appeal with their reason. Alternatively, the turn to Diodotus' rational interest over Cleon's appeal for just vengeance may mark the beginnings of the decline of appeals to justice and decline of the culture of argument in Athens. For Pericles had said that Athens would be victorious if it bided its time and took care of her navy, if it did nothing to risk the safety of the city itself. In this way successful orators would be least tempted to sacrifice their convictions to popularity, in the hope of still higher honours, and unsuccessful speakers to resort to the same popular arts in order to win over the multitude. Citing one of Cleon's main arguments for his position, Diodotus questioned whether the death penalty is really a means of deterrence from revolt or just the opposite. This is at once best for the future, and most terrible to your enemies at the present moment; inasmuch as good policy against an adversary is superior to the blind attacks of brute force. He was confident that the metropolis itself would acknowledge the value of this argument and would keep the better speechmaker with high esteem instead than dishonor him.

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Thucydides 2

mytilenian debate

Instead, he urged the Athenians to spare the Mytilenians in an effort to create an alliance. Mytilenean Debate In this debate the Athenians are re-considering whether a punishment they've decided to inflict on a rebellious ally on the city of Mytilene, on the island of Lesbos — death to the men, enslavement of the women and children — is too harsh or not. The truth is that great good fortune coming suddenly and unexpectedly tends to make a people insolent; in most cases it is safer for mankind to have success in reason than out of reason; and it is easier for them, one may say, to stave off adversity than to preserve prosperity. However, in the instance of the Mytileans, put to deathing them would function no utile intent. Make up your minds, therefore, to give them like for like; and do not let the victims who escaped the plot be more insensible than the conspirators who hatched it; but reflect what they would have done if victorious over you, especially they were the aggressors. Its territory corresponded with that of the current municipal units Mytilene, , , , , and.

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The Mytilenian Debate

mytilenian debate

This national characteristic thus gives the Athenians an advantage. Such were the events that took place at. Citing one of Cleon's main arguments for his position, Diodotus questioned whether the death penalty is really a means of deterrence from revolt or just the opposite. Through this manner, he reassured the audience of the consistence of his personality as he maintained his old place and his extreme regard for the jurisprudence. The venerates one of the three brothers. Pericles advises the Athenians not to give into Spartan demands and to support his case for war Pericles uses the second level of analysis.

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thuk5

mytilenian debate

This is not only the view of the Corinthians however, as it will be now shown in the second debate used to show the first level of analysis, key Spartan individuals supported this stereotype. Under siege, the democratic faction in Mytilene eventually decided to give up and forced the oligarchs to surrender the city. After him Diodotus, son of Eucrates, who had also in the previous assembly spoken most strongly against putting the Mitylenians to death, came forward and spoke as follows: 42. For if they were right in rebelling, you must be wrong in ruling. Considerable remains of the two moles that protected the large North Harbour of the city are still visible just below or just breaking the surface of the sea; it functioned as the commercial harbour of the ancient city although today it is a quiet place where a few small fishing boats are moored.

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Thucydides the Neorealist?

mytilenian debate

It is obvious that he has clearly prepared for this moment. However, as they did not obtain any of the results expected, and their provisions began to run short, they retreated and dispersed to their different cities. We meanwhile shall have to risk our money and our lives against one state after another; and if successful, shall receive a ruined town from which we can no longer draw the revenue upon which our strength depends; while if unsuccessful, we shall have an enemy the more upon our hands, and shall spend the time that might be employed in combating our existing foes in warring with our own allies. The church of at the port As an ancient city, lying off the east coast, Mytilene was initially confined to a small island just offshore that later was joined to Lesbos, creating a north and south harbor. The debate over the fate of Mytilene, an Athenian rebel state, is effectively left in the hands of two individuals. But no, they thought it safer to throw in their lot with the aristocracy and so joined their rebellion! I think the two things most opposed to good counsel are haste and passion; haste usually goes hand in hand with folly, passion with coarseness and narrowness of mind.

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Thucydides: The Mytilenean Debate (427 B.C.)

mytilenian debate

As logos entreaties to the reason or ground of the audience, ethos reaches out to the character of the writer, and poignancy is directed towards the emotions, values and beliefs of the reader, the combination of all three constituents enable the author to make out to his audience and carry them on multiple degrees. He argues that the usage of abrasiveness merely makes sense when it serves a greater intent. Hence, changing grades of Son, ethos and poignancy demand to be utilized to carry a diverse audience. If you punish everyone, even those who were forced to rebel, then everyone will be more likely to rebel in the future and the Athenians will be worse off. . But no, they thought it safer to throw in their lot with the aristocracy and so joined their rebellion! The ancient Greek historian Thucydides, who recounts — or, more likely, re-creates — in his History of the Peloponnesian War many celebrated debates between Athenian statesmen, would surely agree.

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